Comments for The Freethinker https://freethinker.co.uk/ The magazine of freethought, open enquiry and irreverence Mon, 05 Feb 2024 13:39:17 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.4.3 Comment on Do we need God to defend civilisation? by Christopher Kelly https://freethinker.co.uk/2024/01/do-we-need-god-to-defend-civilisation/#comment-241 Mon, 05 Feb 2024 13:39:17 +0000 https://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11847#comment-241 I agree with your concluding paragraph but when referring to the “Christian God and the values of the Bible” I think you need to distinguish OT from the NT. As Prof Stavrakopoulou put it, the ancient God of the OT (supersized, muscle-bound, human-shaped “with a penchant for the fantastic and monstrous”) has long been theorised away and replaced by a lifeless, abstract deity worshipped by Christians and Jews today. In contrast, the God of the NT as represented by Jesus is a completely different being and his values (Sermon on the Mount etc) are what the West has essentially absorbed and built on in varying ways. As an atheist I haven’t got a problem with that, nor with Holland’s central premise in Dominion.

As for Peterson, the man has completely lost the plot. Once upon a time he had some interesting things to say (and I liked his mantra to confront chaos, get on with it and “quit whining!”), but now he sounds like a second-rate, soapbox preacher. His muddled and condescending ‘Message to the Christians Churches’ is just awful.

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Comment on Do we need God to defend civilisation? by CarlW https://freethinker.co.uk/2024/01/do-we-need-god-to-defend-civilisation/#comment-240 Wed, 31 Jan 2024 18:52:38 +0000 https://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11847#comment-240 “Morally, killing someone for their religious beliefs strikes us as murder.”

How about handing your own child over to the village elders to be stoned to death for the crime of backtalking? See Deuteronomy 21:18.

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Comment on ‘I do not think you are going to get a secular state without getting rid of the monarchy’: interview with Graham Smith by Bob Forder https://freethinker.co.uk/2023/12/i-do-not-think-you-are-going-to-get-a-secular-state-without-getting-rid-of-the-monarchy-interview-with-graham-smith/#comment-239 Fri, 19 Jan 2024 17:07:52 +0000 https://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11317#comment-239 In reply to John.

Having just finished reading Smith’s excellent ‘Abolish the Monarchy’ two points struck me. First, his well-argued case that desperately needed, broader constitutional reform and republicanism are closely related. Second, but less positively, I was disappointed at Smith’s failure to draw attention to the freethinking, secularist historical roots of the modern republican movement. Admittedly Republic’s foundation by National Secular Society members is mentioned, but the roots of modern republicanism go so much deeper and the role of personalities such as Thomas Paine, Richard Carlile, Charles Bradlaugh, and those they inspired, deserve more attention. Recognition of such heroic ancestors confers legitimacy on organisations and draws attention to the close relationship between republicanism, freethought, radicalism and secularism. Why else are the Church and Monarchy are so keen to draw attention to their own traditions and past, albeit with appropriate sanitisation?

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Comment on What has Christianity to do with Western values? by CarlW https://freethinker.co.uk/2024/01/what-has-christianity-to-do-with-western-values/#comment-238 Sat, 13 Jan 2024 18:12:23 +0000 https://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11781#comment-238 The West was quite barbarous from Christianity’s beginning. This began to change decisively only around 1665 when Spinoza cut the legs from under Scriptural religion with his Theological-Political Treatise (TTP). Along with arguing for democracy, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, and freedom to publish, the TTP championed the exclusion of religion from government. This was the great focal point of Enlightenment values. Church and crown have been receding ever since.

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Comment on Is the Israel-Palestine conflict fundamentally a nationalist, not a religious, war? by John https://freethinker.co.uk/2023/12/is-the-israel-palestine-conflict-fundamentally-a-nationalist-not-a-religious-war/#comment-237 Tue, 26 Dec 2023 10:45:08 +0000 https://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11343#comment-237 Herzl understood the need to have a major world power backing the zionist project.
For reasons connected with reverses suffered in World War One, this backing came in 1917 from the British Empire in the form of the Balfour Declaration.
During the British Mandate Palestine era (1918-1948), Britain permitted unparalleled levels of inward Jewish migration into Palestine.
The Zionist uprising and Nakba of 1948 effectively meant that the zionists double-crossed the British by driving them and half the Palestinian population out.
After 1948, the zionists switched their “allegiance” to the US Empire.
However, as recent events have indicated, the zionists are currently double-crossing the Americans today, just as they did the British in 1948.

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Comment on ‘I do not think you are going to get a secular state without getting rid of the monarchy’: interview with Graham Smith by John https://freethinker.co.uk/2023/12/i-do-not-think-you-are-going-to-get-a-secular-state-without-getting-rid-of-the-monarchy-interview-with-graham-smith/#comment-236 Tue, 26 Dec 2023 10:21:29 +0000 https://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11317#comment-236 One aspect not mentioned is the way in which monarchy buttresses the British class system.
It also buttresses the degree of inequality of wealth and power in this country.
The sooner monarchy in Britain is abolished, the sooner we will all be able to live in a more egalitarian state.

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Comment on Consciousness, free will and meaning in a Darwinian universe: interview with Daniel C. Dennett  by CarlW https://freethinker.co.uk/2023/12/consciousness-free-will-and-meaning-in-a-darwinian-universe-interview-with-daniel-c-dennett/#comment-235 Mon, 18 Dec 2023 16:52:27 +0000 https://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11259#comment-235 Very nice interview.

The progress since Dennett and the other horsemen has been palpable in my lifetime. Thank you. Someone Daniel Sharp’s age may not appreciate atheists were considered a step below pedophiles not long ago. No more, at least in the West where the worry is more about pedophile clerics.

I do hope Prof. Dennet writes his book on free will. I just can’t get on board with his take, for example in his conversations with Sam Harris on the topic. I also agree with Annaka Harris that panpsychism makes a lot of sense.

Finally, Dennett’s thought experiment with aliens is not needed. The woke supply the hideous social situation that requires no imagining.

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Comment on Is the Israel-Palestine conflict fundamentally a nationalist, not a religious, war? by CarlW https://freethinker.co.uk/2023/12/is-the-israel-palestine-conflict-fundamentally-a-nationalist-not-a-religious-war/#comment-234 Fri, 15 Dec 2023 17:50:07 +0000 https://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11343#comment-234 Too much nuance is merely obfuscation. Religious justification for the state of Israel is nonsensical to me – all religious, supernatural belief is. Millenia of murder, theft, and expulsion convinced Zionists they needed their own country. Through luck and hard work they got it. I support them in keeping it. The only justification needed is the right of survival.

Blame for the “obscene bombardment” since Oct. 7 belongs on Hamas, Iran, and maybe just a little on the wider world that opposed Israel achieving decisive victories in several previous conflicts. Israel absorbed 700,000 Jewish refugees expelled from Arab and Islamic countries following 1948. Why couldn’t and can’t the Arab world solve the “Palestinian problem” rather than letting it metastasize even further?

There are many well known attempts “to do the arduous work of making a common civic society” by Israel – typically met with rejection by the Arabs and always by the Palestinian leaders. Siding with the appeasers is not far short of asking for the Jews to march into the sea. If that’s your solution, please say it out loud.

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Comment on ‘This is not rocket science’: the Disestablishment of the Church of England Bill 2023 by Graham Martin-Royle https://freethinker.co.uk/2023/12/this-is-not-rocket-science-the-disestablishment-of-the-church-of-england-bill-2023/#comment-233 Thu, 07 Dec 2023 12:31:45 +0000 https://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11330#comment-233 “One possibility sometimes mooted by supporters of religion is that, instead of simply having 26 bishops, the major religions and Christian denominations in the UK could all have allocated seats. What would you say to this?”

Whenever I hear this argument I always think, but who decides what the major religions are? Why just those religions? Why are other religions being ignored? What is the threshold for being considered a major religion? Who would be checking any claims for numbers of followers?

There are so many questions that would have to be answered that the only sensible response is that no religion should be allowed any special privileges.

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Comment on Bloodshed in Gaza: Islamists, leftist ideologues, and the prospects of a two-state solution by Martin Harries https://freethinker.co.uk/2023/10/bloodshed-in-gaza-islamists-leftist-ideologues-and-the-prospects-of-a-two-state-solution/#comment-232 Sun, 03 Dec 2023 21:25:12 +0000 https://freethinker.co.uk/?p=10572#comment-232 Read the Quran 17:1. Clearly the ‘farthest mosque’ – where the signs of Allah can be seen – lies in heaven, not Jerusalem.

The Muslims have Mecca, Mohamed’s birthplace, and. Medina, where Mohamed lies after death, where no infidels are allowed. Isn’t that enough? There is no Quranic basis for claiming Jerusalem. There was no mosque in Jerusalem until after the Imperial Muslim siege on Jerusalem some five years AFTER Mohamed died.

Muslims ought to be happy with Mecca and Medina and just let the Jews and Christians share Jerusalem.

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